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Nov 15, 2023, 6:06 am
#1
TravelingZoomer
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: SAN, BOS
Programs: AS MVPG100K, BAEC Gold, Hilton Diamond, Bonvoy Plat,
Posts: 2,282
AS Changes Award Charts: Distance- and Zone-Based from March 2024
Last edited by dayone; Nov 15, 2023 at 7:09 amReason: Fix link.
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Nov 15, 2023, 6:11 am
#2
beyounged
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: YVR/LAX/PVG/TPE
Posts: 760
It has come.
No matter how prepared I thought I was, my heart dropped multiple beats as I read the article. Half way through and now I am taking a break before I scream into the void.
RustyC and Craig Gillhaus like this.
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Nov 15, 2023, 6:23 am
#3
zdfld
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Seattle
Programs: ASMVP100K, Bonvoy Platinum
Posts: 116
This is definitely a devaluation of the sweet spots, the main one being JAL transpacific I believe (CX and QF awards were near impossible to find anyways). Maybe KE too, but now you do get one way options.
On the other hand, these devaluations were happening and were coming at some point. The expansion of booking possibilities by region and partner booking is a huge improvement and long overdue, the distance based chart does help with some scenarios
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Nov 15, 2023, 6:31 am
#4
sgan317
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: MIA
Posts: 498
Grouping South Pacific with Asia is an interesting development. With the stopover rules you would potentially be able to visit a QF Hub for a few days before continuing as far as India for 130k miles (if I read that correctly)
eponymous_coward, progapanda and zdfld like this.
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Nov 15, 2023, 6:33 am
#5
beyounged
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: YVR/LAX/PVG/TPE
Posts: 760
CX is definitely true, as extremely few have popped up. But QF have been releasing increasing amount of awards in the recent months, a quick look will give you many options for DFW/LAX/SFO/YVR. Also do not forget FJ, YVR-NAN is plentiful, but now, YVR-NAN//NAN-SYD goes from 55k to 85k. DE SEA-FRA-MLE goes from 65k to 130k, literal double.
lensovet, Craig Gillhaus and zdfld like this.
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Nov 15, 2023, 6:33 am
#6
lsquare
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL, OZ, AC, AS, AA, BA, Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott, IHG
Posts: 19,905
Pretty disappointing news!
So what are the new sweet spots in the new program?
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Nov 15, 2023, 6:40 am
#7
pushmyredbutton
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SJC / DPS
Programs: AS G75K, UA Silver
Posts: 1,758
Overall I'm pretty ok with this overdue change. Existing sweet spots have slowly been going away (ie. JAL increases, CX/HU no availability..)
Will take some time to find the new sweet spots, but I have a feeling it'll be business class awards right under the cutoff for shorter routes.
I do wonder how this will affect $$ surcharges on some awards - BA specifically...
kileysmom and SimonT007 like this.
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Nov 15, 2023, 7:06 am
#8
dayone
Moderator: Alaska Mileage Plan
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 12,320
Seattlenerd and ashill like this.
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Nov 15, 2023, 7:09 am
#9
beyounged
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: YVR/LAX/PVG/TPE
Posts: 760
the purely geographical chart will definitely be advantageous in many situations, but another look shows that the jump from 1st to 2nd band is too much in Asia and EMEA zones. While SGN-TPE, KUL-DPS, CMB-BKK is 15k in J, HKG-NRT, KUL-MNL, CMB-SIN jumps to a whopping 50k, making it one of the least competitive programs for short-medium haul.
davistev, jmw, eponymous_coward and 4 others like this.
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Nov 15, 2023, 8:02 am
#10
scubadu
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: AUS
Programs: BAEC Gold, AA PPro, Hyatt Globalist, Amex Plat
Posts: 7,043
Having actually reading through the article (as well as a few others), the title for this thread seems a tad melodramatic... (though certainly there are puts and takes, but that is the case with all FFP changes)
Regards
notquiteaff, ashill, RaginPlainsman and 3 others like this.
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Nov 15, 2023, 8:13 am
#11
olouie
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,975
Hopefully we can actually book partner redemptions now with some regularity.
davistev, sea_jeff, RaginPlainsman and 6 others like this.
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Nov 15, 2023, 8:24 am
#12
WillTravel4Food
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Programs: AS MVP Gold 75K, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,598
For the way me and Mrs. WillTravel4Food use our miles, this poses minimal cost increases. We do a lot of SEA-EU and SEA-Japan. I am definitely looking forward to being able to use multiple partners on awards. After looking at the press release and the updated charts on the AS website, I noticed two things:
(1) On Asia and Europe awards, the stop-over is now limited to 14 days. I think this is a new restriction, likely to eliminate people using the stop over to add a leg for another journey months later.
(2) There's no mention of surcharges (YQ) on awards. I am curious if this means the BA vig will be eliminated. This is not me being naive as I fully expect the YQ to remain. It's just that there's no mention of it in the charts.
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Nov 15, 2023, 8:35 am
#13
notquiteaff
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pacific Northwest
Programs: UA Gold 1MM, AS 75k, AA Plat, Bonvoyed Gold, Honors Dia, Hyatt Explorer, IHG Plat, ...
Posts: 16,859
Originally Posted by olouie
Hopefully we can actually book partner redemptions now with some regularity.
Right. Pricing doesnt matter when there isnt much availability in the first place. But will AS have now more availability? Doesnt Saver availability depend 100% on what partners are opening up? Or is the thinking that higher prices allow AS to pay the partners more and thus get more seats?
I think, at first glance, these changes are a mixed bag. I never used some of the the sweet spots mentioned by people, so wont join in mourning their demise. But some of my bread a butter routes from the last several years will also become a lot more expensive (Condor J west coast to FRA now 70k instead of 55k?). I see some bright spots such as lower pricing for FI F and the promised multiple-partner awards.
Things change, we adapt.
dc333, WillTravel4Food, Brandinho1 and 5 others like this.
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Nov 15, 2023, 8:44 am
#14
scubadu
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: AUS
Programs: BAEC Gold, AA PPro, Hyatt Globalist, Amex Plat
Posts: 7,043
Originally Posted by WillTravel4Food
<snip>(2) There's no mention of surcharges (YQ) on awards. I am curious if this means the BA vig will be eliminated. This is not me being naive as I fully expect the YQ to remain. It's just that there's no mention of it in the charts.
Several have mentioned this and I'm really not sure why. BA surcharges have been around for as long as I can remember and no FFP gets you out of them (CX lowers them somewhat, but they are still there). But I've literally never seen an award chart that specifically mentions taxes/fees/surcharges. For example, the AA Award Charts have had BA awards listed as 57K forever, with no mention, whatsoever, of the taxes and surcharges relative to other OW partners. But, you absolutely do end up having to pay them.
Also, I'm coming to realize that the obsession with BA surcharges is perhaps overdone. The trade-off at least historically (realizing there was a short term gap recently) is that BA actually provides award inventory 
We can talk all day long about how great CX awards are and there are no taxes and fees, but it doesn't really matter if the award is theoretically a unicorn going forward. Iberia for example, does not charge the same high surcharges as BA, but again, the availability is minuscule compared to what BA provides.
Everything has a trade-off, you just have to pick your poison.
Regards
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Nov 15, 2023, 8:52 am
#15
WillTravel4Food
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Programs: AS MVP Gold 75K, Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,598
Originally Posted by scubadu
Several have mentioned this and I'm really not sure why. BA surcharges have been around for as long as I can remember and no FFP gets you out of them (CX lowers them somewhat, but they are still there). But I've literally never seen an award chart that specifically mentions taxes/fees/surcharges. For example, the AA Award Charts have had BA awards listed as 57K forever, with no mention, whatsoever, of the taxes and surcharges relative to other OW partners. But, you absolutely do end up having to pay them.
<DELETED>
I took a second, closer look at the TERMS. Here's where they cover YQ, "The exact amount of taxes and carrier-imposed fees that will apply will appear when searching for a particular itinerary, and can start at $100 for international itineraries with select partners." Looks to me like it definitely stays.
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